"Most think: I get paid money for drinking beer." Interview with beer sommelier Yuri Susov

Yuri Susov emphasizes that he receives money not for drinking beer, but for sharing his knowledge about it. We spoke with him about the profession and its significance for the world, and also asked him to share his observations about alcoholic beverages. Most likely, you will want to transfer them to your notes.

What does a beer sommelier do?

- You emphasized that you are a beer sommelier, and not a taster, what's the difference?

- People, unfortunately, do not understand well what each of them does. Most people think: I get paid money for drinking beer. It's not like that at all.

Initially, the sommelier was named responsible for the cellar. In a sense, this is a purchaser, a manager. Of course he needs understand in a drink. But a sommelier is not paid for saying, with a smart look: “This is delicious, but this is not.”

He works with suppliers, analyzes contracts for the supply of European beer, assesses whether it is worth bringing it to Russia, at what price it will be bought, what competitors the manufacturer has.

Drinking beer is only a tiny part of the work involved in tasting.

— You also make beer cards for bars. What does this process look like? After all, the formation of the list is not only based on taste?

- Yes. I always say that expensive beer is easy to work with: it tastes good. But you understand that the "bottling" at the house will not be able to buy German Riegele for 340 rubles per liter and sell it for 800 - no one will buy it.

It is more difficult to work with cheap beer, a liter of which costs 50 rubles. It is not the best, but there are still options that you can at least drink.

Now I work with a network of stores represented throughout Russia, mainly in the Moscow region. What was the first thing I did when I got there? Reduced the purchase price of a liter by a few rubles: discussed the new cost with current suppliers, and also offered to replace some positions with those that are both better and cheaper. This decision gave steep financial results. I paid back my payroll immediately. The owner did not even expect this.

Now I understand that my work for draft beer shops (DBR) can be even more useful than for restaurants. At first it seemed: beer is cheap there, everything is plus or minus the same. But no - not all. Eat bad, dirty, infected, but there is decent, clean, normal.

Where did you study to be a sommelier?

- It all started with a circle of interests - "Pivzala". There were guys who were not indifferent to beer. At each meeting, it was necessary to bring an unusual bottle and make a report about it. This is how we educate each other.

Then I began to write reviews and reviews of beer - the era of blogging began. I was noticed and invited to work in a restaurant. I was then busy in a completely different area, but it was interesting to plunge into all this.

After the main work, I came to this place for 3 hours, worked with guests, conducted tastings. Then I was the first to make them for a wide range. And then - the first who refused them. It became uninteresting and unprofitable, and the organization and sale of tickets for events began to take a lot of effort. Now I work with tastings, but only in the “private” format, when a company hires me for a corporate party, for example.

Then I was offered to draw up beer cards, to be a distributor in brewery. All this gave a lot of experience, thanks to which I am now working on three different projects - with a restaurant, and with an MRP network, and with a distribution company.

— Do I need to have some physiological characteristics to become a sommelier? A super sense of smell or a lot of taste buds on the tongue?

I can't say what is needed. Super abilities. In everything, experience, imagination and the absence of snobbery are important. The sommelier is the translator. It conveys to the person information about the drink in a digestible form. Its task is to beautifully paint what awaits the consumer in the bottle.

To help him, there are lists of descriptors - the taste and aromatic features of the product. In the beer industry, the standard is classification from the American organization BJCP. But it's not so easy for her.

For example, one of the descriptors there is called "wet belly of a hare." How is that? Do you want to drink beer that smells like this? Me not.

This system is standardized. But it is important not to blindly follow it, but to add something from yourself. For example, in descriptions of Belgian beer, I often see “dried fruit” — one of the descriptors for the BJCP. But they are different: prunes, dried apricots... Say a few words from yourself! And then there is a feeling that the text was written by a copywriter. Faceless, without depth.

A good sommelier may not have the best organoleptic skills. But he must be able to choose such words so that, after reading his text, a person says: “Yes, to the point! This is not just dried dried fruit, but moist, fragrant, sweet prunes!”

That's why a good fantasy is needed.

— You said that the lack of snobbery is important for a sommelier. But at the thought of wine tasters, the image of a Frenchman in a beret pops up in his head, who winces disdainfully, looking at cheap wine. Where does this stereotype come from? And how do you think wine and beer sommeliers differ?

You brought up a great topic. The worlds of beer and wine are two completely different markets. In the theory of economics, there is a term “natural monopoly”, which perfectly describes wine producers.

Let's say one of them has a plot in Burgundy with a certain ash content in the soil. It has access to a stream and is located on a sunny slope. All this forms a unique terroir - there is no other like it - and a natural monopoly on wine from grapesgrown in this area.

It doesn’t matter how successful the product is in the end, the main thing is that it is unique. And this is where marketing comes into play.

Why do sommelier ambassadors really look like you described: in berets and with a dismissive expression? Because otherwise people will begin to have doubts: “Is the bottle of wine that they praise really worth the money?”

Such sommeliers are trying to sell the image. Arriving in the same Italy, you will find decent cheap wine, and expensive untwisted. Although the difference in quality may be minimal.

Of course, there are also honest wine sommeliers, and I am friends with them!

The world of beer is a market. There are other laws at work here. I often ask: how to brew a Russian drink that will be no worse than a German one? The answer is this: you, a Russian, buy a brewery in Europe, invite a German engineer, a German brewer, buy malt in Belgium, hops in the Czech Republic, and yeast in the Netherlands - and you are welcome! Russian beer is ready.

The fact is that there access to products and equipment is open to everyone on equal terms. If someone starts to raise prices, there will be someone who will make the same drink no worse, but cheaper. Therefore, you can buy a bottle of the best beer in the world, which the Pope drinks, in a supermarket for 169 rubles. Weltenburger is called.

— Don't you think that sommeliers and compilers of descriptors, roughly speaking, impose their opinion on consumers, saying: “Here you should feel the wet belly of a hare”?

- No. I believe that everyone is their own sommelier. You can’t say: “You must feel ...” Someone may not feel anything! But there is this moment: you find some taste in the drink, and the rest exclaim “Yes! Exactly!

Let me explain with an example how it works. Recently, in a sample of Zhigulevsky, I found pronounced tones feijoa. I never figured out why it happened: a brewer's mistake, a yeast mutation... Nevertheless, a noble taste, which was never born in this beer, was felt.

Until I said this, no one noticed it - simply because they did not try to look for it. But when I marked this coordinate, people began to remember what flavor the feijoa had, and they really heard it.

Is this indoctrination? I do not think so.

What types of beer exist and how do they differ

- When talking about wine, the terroir of the grapes and the year of its harvest are of great importance. And what about hops?

- If one variety of grapes is mainly used for making wine, then beer goes hop blend. Single Hop - a drink that is made on one variety of hops - this is a rarity.

Mostly in the average IPA there are 5–6 of them. It turns out a kind of porridge, and to feel the influence of a particular terroir and harvest, to be honest, is simply impossible. Don't believe if someone tells you it's real.

— What styles of beer exist and how do they differ from each other?

- The most popular classification is American, BJCP. In the absence of others, it is now used almost everywhere. It describes quite a lot. beer styles: From traditional ales to modern craft options that have appeared more recently.

— How does craft beer differ from conventional beer mass market?

- In the mass market, the sales department can dictate its conditions to brewers: “You are limited to ingredients for a certain amount and must meet it. If you brew a beer that costs 50 kopecks more in production, we won’t sell it.”

Craft drinks, on the other hand, are made by people who, most often, own a small factory. This is bigger activity for the soul. They brew whatever beer they want, even if selling it doesn't make a lot of money.

Craft beer often has a bright taste (not always good) and is made for people who want to try something new. Thanks to this, the tomato gose or smoothie sour was born.

However, not all craft breweries make quality brews, and not all large breweries produce bad beers. The microbiological conditions at the plant and the taste of the brewers themselves play a big role here.

— But some, for example, try to make beer at home. So it's not the same as crafting?

- No, it's fun. Whatever you do, beer, cooked at home, will be “dirty”, if only because you will not be able to maintain the sterility of the room and protect the drink from microbiological contamination. For example, I try not to drink homemade sour ales and gose. These are acidified styles, in which live sour milk is present - it is not known how it will behave.

In addition, it will be difficult to maintain the correct temperature in the kitchen, and yeast can produce unnecessary substances - not always tasty and fragrant. And finally, even if you make a delicious drink, you are unlikely to be able to repeat it.

How to taste beer the right way

How should a beer tasting be done?

- Vinniki often start tasting beer like this: they take a very wide glass for red wines - I call them "decanter on the leg, ”- pour 10 ml of the drink there, smear it on the walls and try it. But no consumer will do the same.

First, the threshold for beer tasting is 100 ml. Sometimes it's 150 or even 200. Beer, unlike wine, is drunk in a different sip.

Secondly, it evaluates such a parameter as carbonization - the saturation of beer with carbon dioxide. It will all come out if you smear the drink on the walls. The taste will be worse. For the same reason, for example, no one tastes champagnewhich has been exhausted.

Therefore, often those who are used to drinking wine taste beer incorrectly. Accordingly, they do not get any pleasure from it and therefore do not like it.

It's like testing a Jeep Wrangler in Formula One and saying it doesn't drive well. So it was not created for this!

You need to taste the drink in the same way as you will drink it. Therefore, I recommend doing the following.

1. Chill the beer to medium temperature, around 10°C. In the process, it will still warm up a little. For tasting, you can use the same wine glasses - it is not necessary to immediately purchase professional glass.

2. Rate the look. What can you see? Foam. However, in most cases it is incorrect to evaluate it, because, for example, in a Belgian dark ale, it should not be present at all. And in the German hefeweizen, the cap should occupy 20% of the volume of the glass. If you do not know anything about these nuances, you can skip the step.

The main thing is to see if something extraneous is floating in the glass. For example, if you open a bottle of pale lager and see flakes of sediment forming in it, that's bad. This means that the bottle was kept warm at a high temperature for a long time. Most likely, such a drink will have low taste.

3. Listen to the scent. Find in memory associations.

4. Take a sip. If you take a mouthful of carbonated beer, your cheeks will swell and your tongue will tingle. Therefore, you should not keep it in your mouth for a long time, like wine.

- Is there any division: these types of beer are better for meat, and these are better for fish? What is the best way to drink it?

— Yes, there are specialists in foodpairing, a method that determines the combination of ingredients in a dish based on their molecular composition. But if you want to do it yourself, you need to have a lot of experience, practically being a chef.

It happens that people take good fish - for example, hot smoked omul - and their beer acts as a drink. Or in another way: they buy a good drink, and hard cheese takes over the snack function.

But I think that beer and food should be on an equal footing. There is no need for any of them to act as a snack or a drink.

This is a big and difficult job. I’ll tell you from my own experience: the chefs and I tried for a very long time to come up with various combinations through trial and error.

One way is to play opposites. For example, take a sour cherry beer and add a sweet chocolate dessert to it, a biscuit in which is soaked in red wine with cherry tones. The berry will unite these opposing tastes.

Or, on the contrary, you can work on the principle of “like to like”: take cherry jam and sweet cherry beer. They will also match equally.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to do this at home. But I am sure that good food is often combined with good beer. I won't tell you that Belgian blanche should only be drunk with mussels because it's the best pairing. If you take a piece of good ham with it, you will also enjoy the taste.

For example, I usually buy beer meat with a neutral taste - not too smoked and spicy, or good cheeses. Not dorblu, which, due to its texture, will take too much attention on itself, but, for example, parmesan.

How are the sommelier profession and alcoholism related?

- There is an opinion that wine and beer tasters actually have an alcohol addiction. What do you think about it? Are you afraid to get addicted to alcohol?

- Sometimes I take myself days and weeks of "silence" when I want to cleanse the body. I don't enjoy being in a state of heavy alcohol at all. drunkenness. And no one pays for it.

But really: in this profession, anyone can encounter alcoholism. What is more important here is who handles it. If alcohol starts interfering with life - work, hobbies, relationships - I will most likely leave it. I see no problem saying no to myself.

— Do you think that you are promoting a conscious approach to beer consumption? Do you think it can help overcome the problem of alcoholism?

- I'll say this. Why does a person drink? Most likely, because he is tired of living. What can I tell him? Look, what a delicious Riegele for 800 rubles? Will it help him?

The only thing I can do for these people is keep them safe from tainted, dangerous beer. Otherwise, they will also face poisoning by the waste products of microorganisms.

But save a man from problems with alcohol — unbelievable. Although my opinion is unpopular among colleagues. Many like to pound their fists on their chests: “We are promoting mindful consumption.” However, one must understand that they are promoting it in their environment - among those who have already come to it.

Which beer is worth trying?

- List the types of beer that would be interesting to try.

- Here are some examples:

• Lambic is not fruity. It is the only spontaneously fermented terroir beer that is only made in a specific location in Belgium. It contains over 80 strains of yeast.
• Rochefort 8, which they do monks at the Abbey of Notre Dame de Saint Remy. But for him you need a certain glass - only in it the beer will open properly.
• Beer in style New England IPA - It is not particularly bitter, but very aromatic. It will help you discover how enjoyable hops can be.

— What would you advise people who do not like beer to try?

Bourgogne des Flanders is a Flemish ale aged in oak barrels. It contains wine tones, it is with a slight sourness and sweetness. This is my answer to sommeliers who say: "Surprise me, I don't drink beer." I have met few people who would not go to Bourgogne des Flanders.

— What is the best beer in terms of price-quality ratio?

- I will not name specific brands, but now in specialized alcohol stores there are cheap imports in cans. German, for example, can be bought for 50-70 rubles.

In general, I would advise you to buy good imported beer for a promotion. To choose what is better, you can use the application RateBeer. If you see that some bottle has a rating of 1/100, you probably shouldn't take it.